To see the December posts, HERE is where you want to go.

Nice command of the English Language

The Colts gave up big yardage against Denver in THEIR first game Marksy!
[Date/Time=01-01-2004 - 8:25 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=565388]   [IP Addr=]

Take this command about your Colts...

THEY'RE going to lose this weekend. Plus, it's nice to see all of you Bear fans chimming in!
[Date/Time=01-01-2004 - 2:50 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=565502]   [IP Addr=]

Marksy, you keep giving me material!

That would be CHIMING in!
[Date/Time=01-01-2004 - 3:51 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=565521]   [IP Addr=]

OK, a Bears fan's perspective...

You can say what you want about the Packers; all I know is that I live five minutes from White Castle, a half-hour from Wrigley Field, and got to enjoy one of the top athletes of all time win six championships.

I wouldn't have it any other way...
[Date/Time=01-01-2004 - 5:25 PM]    Name:Gazzoo dirwuf@hotmail.com, [Msgid=565545]   [IP Addr=]


"gave up yardage on the ground equal to 16 camp roads....from what I heard on KTIM today."


[Date/Time=01-01-2004 - 7:37 PM]    Name:Pud [Msgid=565582]   [IP Addr=]

Moss, check your sources

Moss: I believe your Colts played Denver in week 16 -- a week where the Bronco's were missing Clinton Portis. The Broncos ran for 227 yards that day while Payton Manning threw for under 150 yards. Pud, Rich Bodan is now Program Director at KTIM -- he's come along way!!

[Date/Time=01-02-2004 - 3:09 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=565724]   [IP Addr=]

Moss and the Hoosiers

The last time I heard a good sports argument out of you was when you and Rick would take on anybody (usually in the Lodge) who would dare question Bob Knightís authority or b-ball ability.

I can still hear Rick yelling about the general and sticking in a îHey Budî every couple of sentences. The Colts are soft and how is your boy Knight doing now?????

PS. How many colts does it take to change a tire? One. Unless itís an AFC Playoff game blowout, then the whole team shows up.

Remind all the Rev. Jones Colt fans to put down the Colt's Super Bowl cool aide.

[Date/Time=01-02-2004 - 5:13 PM]    Name:Schmegma@theswimraft [Msgid=565904]   [IP Addr=]


Just back from the New Year's Eve wedding of Mike Kanovitz and Dana Major in Louisville! It was a beautiful ceremony under the Huppah; Ross and Meadow (who wore a tuxedo, no less!) were also in attendence. Kanto and Dana now live in Chicago, and are expecting a baby girl in April. That's a double Bravo!
[Date/Time=01-02-2004 - 8:35 PM]    Name:David Raskin draskin@artic.edu, [Msgid=565979]   [IP Addr=]

One more Packer thought

I made the mistake of "wishful thinking" with last year's Packer team and the fatal followup mistake of trying to face JMoss in Memphis regarding the Packers playoff prospects. I was, unfortunately, humiliated by the Jets and Falcons losses. Once again, however, I must express my expectations for this year's playoff team. How many teams have a quarterback like Favre (most touchdown passes this year) whose performance is peaking as his thumb heals, a running back like Ahman Green (2nd highest rushing total this year), an offensive line rated amongst the best in the league, and a very dependable kicker in Ryan Longwell. They have an angel on their shoulders and are riding the longest winning streak in the NFL (suspect teams but victories nonetheless). If their defense (now middle of the pack rather than in the bottom tier as earlier in the season) plays a decent game, they will be very hard to beat. Of our 6 losses, Kansas City, Philadelphia, and St. Louis won their divisions and Minnesota should have. Kansas City and Philadelphia should, in fact, have been victories. Arizona and Detroit were shocking dud performances, but that happens to every team. I've got to believe that, right now, Green Bay is the single NFC team which is most feared.
[Date/Time=01-02-2004 - 8:42 PM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=565982]   [IP Addr=]

if you're gonna talk trash identify yourself!

Hey Schmegma, come out of your closet and fight like a man!
[Date/Time=01-02-2004 - 9:26 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566005]   [IP Addr=]

point of information

Nice to see you contributing Shim! But lest you spout off that the Packers have the "longest winning streak in the NFL," to too many people you might want to consider that their streak of 4 games is slightly shorter and less impressive than New England's streak of 12 straight games! I believe you are correct that they have the longest streak in the NFC.
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 7:00 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566074]   [IP Addr=]

Can't give up rushing yards and win in the Super Bowl

Moss: Your Indianapolis Chokes have given up 124 yards a game on the ground. Payton Manning is 0-3 in playoff games and they sucked in the month of December. FEEL FREE TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT YOUR CHANCES!!
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 10:35 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566163]   [IP Addr=]


I suppose beating Tennessee and Houston on the road, blowing out Atlanta (with Michael Vick) at home and going 3-1 in December is sucking in your warped mind Marksy, but you've never let facts get in the way of one of your ill thought out rants!
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 10:43 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566166]   [IP Addr=]

You out there Schmeg?

Still waiting for you to identify yourself. It takes a real man to take potshots anonymously!
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 9:40 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566168]   [IP Addr=]


JMoss -

I stand corrected - NFC not NFL. I, for one, think the Colts stand a very good chance of making it to the Super Bowl. I think Manning deserves the MVP more than McNair. Their comeback over Tampa Bay was among the best and most exciting football I've ever seen and Manning has stepped it up this year. Let's hope for a Colts - Packers Super Bowl (with the Pack winning, of course!). Favre vs. Manning would be one for the ages!

Marksy -

Confidence is good; hubris is dangerous.
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 10:52 AM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=566169]   [IP Addr=]


Thanks for the sanity interlude, James! One of the reasons I haven't popped off about the Colts, is the fact that they're playing Denver, who is the only team that beat them easily, and is the de facto hottest team in the AFC. Don't let their short-handed performance in a meaningless game fool you...THEY could go to the Super Bowl! I think the Colts certainly have a chance against them. But I'm not predicting anything!
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 11:58 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566185]   [IP Addr=]

I'll make a prediction

MY PREDICTION: Moss gives you 10 reasons why he told ya so ---or gives 10 excuses why the Colts SHOULD have won the game. Either way, it makes for good copy and is the main reason why I got into this entire bulletin board bonanza. Someone needed to wake this board up...GO PACK!!
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 12:58 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566209]   [IP Addr=]


Iíll identify myself after you list your five favorite campers. (Or the biggest pain-in-ass campers that you had the great privilege of being their counselor).

Here is a hint; I was there for the great "we wonít sit till we can s--t" campaign/protest to get our toilet in the cabin working again. (second session, but I don't remember the year).

By the way, I'm thinking of suing you for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for keeping me up as a kid all those nights while those awful Frank Zappa Albums played loudly from the Counselor Room.

Or I might sue Rick, just for being Rick....He made fun of me when I could not get up on one ski. (He also kept me out on the Lake for 40 minutes and worked with me unitl I could get it, but that won't be a part of the law suit).

[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 9:52 PM]    Name:Schmegma@theswimraft [Msgid=566278]   [IP Addr=]

In the running

Moss- whomever it is...we now know he was a Gast Award Finalist.....or should have been.
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 5:50 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566297]   [IP Addr=]


Don't do me like that Marksy....

after all those deep water pick-ups I made for you in the passenger seat or hanging off the back bumper of that old school pick-up truck (PUD Mobile?) during PA and CIT garbage runs...

[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 6:33 PM]    Name:Schmegma@theswimraft [Msgid=566310]   [IP Addr=]

By the Way


I just discovered this web site last month and it is remarkable. I am in the process of sending Gazzoo all my info for the Timberbase. Seeing the JP wedding photos and the 2000 Reunion photos were a fantastic gift. It was a treat to think about all of you great counselors and Timberlane legends and friends that I worshiped as a kid and hoped to emulate. It is like coming home again.

I could not resist giving Moss a hard time without fear of retribution. And it is good to see the Marksy / Pud team rides again.

All I need now is 12-pack of BLCA, an Alexander Pizza and an A&W run and my Timberlane experience will be complete.


[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 9:53 PM]    Name:Schmegma@theswimraft [Msgid=566334]   [IP Addr=]


Zimmerman?..Billy Straus? I'm guessing Adam Zimmerman
[Date/Time=01-03-2004 - 9:52 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566344]   [IP Addr=]

Not Zimm --I'm guessing Sus

Zimmerman never did a gargage run in his entire life Moss....
[Date/Time=01-04-2004 - 11:10 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566535]   [IP Addr=]


For those of you who sort of know football but act like you are experts, that's a perfect passer rating. Too bad Peyton can't win the big one. Good thing this game was in January since the Colts had such a horrible December. Marksy, sorry I haven't been around for the fun until now. Looking forward to some serious participation from here on out.
[Date/Time=01-04-2004 - 6:35 PM]    Name:RMoss rrmossler@comcast.net, [Msgid=566691]   [IP Addr=]

A Dream Game

Wildcard Weekend down and still alive! Here's hoping for a Packers - Colts Super Bowl. Shades of Marquette - Indiana in the lodge just after Fred Bierman's William Tell Overture on the harmonica!
[Date/Time=01-04-2004 - 6:55 PM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=566694]   [IP Addr=]

Always enjoy alittle RMOSS postings - typically wrong!

RMOSS....Since your team has never played for the "Lombardi" Trophy before (I know you all have this pent up frustration that it's not called the Irsay Trophy) Packer fans would call todays game a few weeks premature from "THE BIG ONE". Win next week---then the games get BIG....starting with the AFC Championship game. Today was just round 1 my friend. Let all of us Packer fans lead teach you about the process leading up to the BIG GAME. We totally understand you Colt fans running into virgin territory right now....actually WINNING a playoff game.
[Date/Time=01-04-2004 - 8:41 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566721]   [IP Addr=]

Gimme a break...

The ONLY reason it's called the "Lombardi Trophy" is because he happened to be the winning coach the random year (1967) they started calling the championship game "Super Bowl". If the name change had happened in 1970, it would be the "Stram Trophy" or in 1977, the "Madden Trophy"...well you get the idea.

By the way, the most important event of Sunday has been totally ignored...the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" season premiere. Drs. Moss or Shimmy, why can't we use the phone in the examining room?

[Date/Time=01-04-2004 - 10:09 PM]    Name:Gazzoo dirwuf@hotmail.com, [Msgid=566736]   [IP Addr=]


That would be classified information. Years of medical training and boatloads of malpractice insurance are required for use of that phone.
[Date/Time=01-04-2004 - 10:24 PM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=566756]   [IP Addr=]


None of our exam rooms have phones, and nowadays it's a moot point..everyone comes in with cell phones. I love curb, but that bit had no basis in fact!...Loved the yelling at the guy in the motorized wheelchair! Marksy, I beg you, please start posting early about how the Colts have no chance against K.C!
[Date/Time=01-05-2004 - 7:10 AM]    Name:JMoss embensar@comcast.net, [Msgid=566799]   [IP Addr=]

GAZZOO, In the words of the Mosslers

YOU'RE WRONG! As for the Chiefs/Colts game -- even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while. Hey, with as many yards as KC gives up, I would not rule out a Colts win.
[Date/Time=01-05-2004 - 9:26 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566847]   [IP Addr=]

Blind Squirrel

Speaking of blind squirrels finding nuts, how many balls can Favre just chuck in the air and have Packers catch?...Maybe God really is on his side...somehow I think it will be a bit more difficult in Philly. Keep dissin' Manning and the Colts. I'm glad he was a co-MVP, even though it's a joke that he didn't win it outright. It gives him a little edge, and something to prove. I think he shut up a lot of his critics last night, but most of them are a bit more rational and objective than Marksy!
[Date/Time=01-05-2004 - 4:46 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566898]   [IP Addr=]


Lombardi was a great coach, but no boy scout. Dying of cancer probably had a lot to do with the trophy being named after him. That's why we have the "Jimmy V Classic." Hell if Bob Knight had died of cancer in 1982, the NCAA Championship trophy might be called the Bob Knight Trophy!...Coaches and players always become greater legends after they die.
[Date/Time=01-05-2004 - 4:02 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=566958]   [IP Addr=]

One game means nothing

JMOSS -- One game means nothing. Mostly every team that wins the Super Bowl goes through a very tough game to get there. Just because you won by a million last weekend -- it means nothing. Just because the Packers won in overtime -- it means nothing. I don't believe any of the Payton Manning critics will be silenced unless they get to the AFC Championship game. One thing we can agree on -- all the Chicago Bears watching the game on TV -- they can and will have the exact same experience in the exact same lounge chair this week ....and next week and the week after!
[Date/Time=01-05-2004 - 1:40 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=566972]   [IP Addr=]


JMoss -

While I'll support your confidence in the Colts and Manning and while I'd like to reign in Marksy's Packer euphoria, I'll have to take exception to your characterization of Lombardi and his unique importance to the NFL. The man epitomized all that is honorable and valiant about the struggle to succeed in football and in life. Read "When Pride Still Mattered" - he was unequivocally the greatest coach in NFL history and coached one of the most storied dynasties in American sports. The Colts, Steelers, Bears, Vikings, etc. all have some history and contribution, but the Green Bay Packers - especially those 60's teams of Lombardi - are the stuff of legend. Of course I'm biased, but there are too many sportswriters (not from Wisconsin) who recognize the special bond of loyal townfolk and the can-do team they own (literally) and love, regardless of the teams years of success or failure. Dallas may think they're "America's Team" but the Packers are the people's team. Lombardi symbolizes the ability to work hard and achieve more than your innate talents would suggest possible:

The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor.
Vincent T. Lombardi

If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970)

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will.
Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970)

In great attempts it is glorious even to fail.
Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970)

The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur.
Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970)

Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.~ Vince Lombardi

[Date/Time=01-05-2004 - 11:04 PM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=567196]   [IP Addr=]

Duely noted

James, it's a hell of a lot harder to argue with your well thought out posts than Marksy's knee-jerk/emotional homer rants!
[Date/Time=01-06-2004 - 9:44 AM]    Name:JMoss embensar@comcast.net, [Msgid=567279]   [IP Addr=]

Bring it on

I can be as thought out as the next guy Moss. I just find knee jerk rants find a better place in your heart to bring out the real JMOSS responses....which can be classic! You think I really give 2 craps who wins next weekend-- the Colts or the Chiefs. The ONLY reason I would want the Colts is that is makes this board lively for another week or so. As for Doctor Hiken -- Shimmy my boy...I'M A HUGE PACKER FAN. You can take the Bucks, Brewers and any other professional sport and toss them in Lake Michigan as long as I have the Green Bay Packers to cheer for. My office is full of Packer stuff, my conference rooms are designated the "Green" Conference Room and the "Gold" Conference Room. I have an autographed #4 jersey framed in my office. I don't have as much stuff as Billy Fried in his Packer Room of Minocqua, but I have enough for someone coming in my office would know that I am a pretty big fan. I travel to see big games too -- which will begin shortly after we torch the Eagles on Sunday. By the way...where is Schmegma? I assume it's Susman! Gazzoo, you cheering for the Packers on Sunday like so many Bear fans I know??
[Date/Time=01-06-2004 - 9:46 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=567320]   [IP Addr=]

The People's Team

I have always hated any team claiming to be "America's Team" or "The People's Team." The exception is the Cubs, because they're such lovable losers. If hell freezes over and they ever get to the World Series, and all of America jumps on their bandwagon, I'll probably hate them too.

P.S. Where are all the Bulls fans now?

[Date/Time=01-06-2004 - 2:17 PM]    Name:JMoss embensar@comcast.net, [Msgid=567321]   [IP Addr=]

The REAL Lombardi

I think Negroes are more naturally endowed.
Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970)


...yeah Marksy, I'm rooting for the Pack to beat Philly; but watch out my friend when Coach Ditka retrurns next season and guides da beloved Bears to a 15-1 record and 3 playoff shutouts.

[Date/Time=01-06-2004 - 9:43 PM]    Name:Gazzoo dirwuf@hotmail.com, [Msgid=567488]   [IP Addr=]

Even I

You gotta love DA COACH...
[Date/Time=01-06-2004 - 4:18 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=567557]   [IP Addr=]

What makes a fan?

Marksy -

While you may steep yourself in Packer memorabilia, I have only my two Packer coffee mugs, three t-shirts, hat, sweatshirt, and green and gold Nerf football. Oh, and my single share of Green Bay Packer stock as a shareholder. But my palms sweat throughout every close Packer game and my weekends are made or broken by a Packer win or loss. The love of a team and one's emotional investment are probably not measured by the size of one's curio cabinet.
[Date/Time=01-06-2004 - 10:43 PM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=567739]   [IP Addr=]

I'm Touched......

SNIFF, SNIFF. Waxing such poetics.....all this Packer talk just brings a tear to my eyes. The way the last two weeks have gone, ya gotta think someone/thing is watching over The Pack. Also gotta love the Colts....Tony has gotten sooo close before.
[Date/Time=01-07-2004 - 7:57 AM]    Name:JP [Msgid=567842]   [IP Addr=]


THAT'S IT SHIMMY --- YOU'RE GOING ON THE NAIL! Hey, close the door to the cabin so Shimmy can't run out to his mom and dad's house.
[Date/Time=01-07-2004 - 10:14 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=567900]   [IP Addr=]

Weekends made or broken...

James--you gotta come in with some fellatio instead...
[Date/Time=01-07-2004 - 6:35 PM]    Name:ggorchtrout bro-in-law@BEARS.PSL.com, [Msgid=567965]   [IP Addr=]

the board

hell, i might even want the pack to win if it keeps this board alive another week or two!
[Date/Time=01-07-2004 - 7:55 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=568197]   [IP Addr=]

Keep It Alive

I knew we would agree eventually Moss!!
[Date/Time=01-08-2004 - 9:18 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=568382]   [IP Addr=]

14:15 minutes of fame to go...

Imagine my surprise this morning while driving in morning commute traffic... A story on NPR (that's radio for intelligent people for you "idiots" out there!) about corrupt cops in Chicago and who is defending the supposedly abused suspects but none other than Mike "Kanto-Trout" Kantovitz. They then proceed to give him 45 seconds of air time and his voice was pure Kanto. I felt like calling NPR and telling them about the homemade brew he concocted in his foot locker in the counselor room of Cherokee cabin in 1983... but being that he's a bad ass lawyer now he'd probably make me pay for it!

Cheers to Kanto on his recent wedding to Dana Major.

[Date/Time=01-08-2004 - 2:06 PM]    Name:Jeff Leiken JLeiken@MentorCounselor.com, [Msgid=568536]   [IP Addr=]

National People's Radio

NPR is great for you left leaners!...Hey, corrupt cops in Chicago?..next thing you know you're gonna tell me they're elections aren't on the up and up! Is Kanovitz representing the person in a civil suit, or a criminal matter...if the person's suing, color me skeptical!
[Date/Time=01-08-2004 - 6:13 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=568655]   [IP Addr=]


"next thing you know you're gonna tell me THEY'RE elections aren't on the up and up!"

[Date/Time=01-08-2004 - 8:23 PM]    Name:Pudderonymous [Msgid=568719]   [IP Addr=]

THEIR- THEY'RE or THERE....who cares?

JMOSS--- I gotta tell ya. I caught that one too but the kinder, gentler Marksy let it go. But changing subjects---didn't I see Pud on Average Joe?
[Date/Time=01-08-2004 - 10:11 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=568761]   [IP Addr=]

too funny!

I guess I deserved that one!...how freaking ironic! Puddy, you the man! Enjoy the games this weekend one and all!
[Date/Time=01-09-2004 - 8:06 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=569224]   [IP Addr=]


P.S. where is that power woos Schegma@theswimrart?
[Date/Time=01-09-2004 - 8:08 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=569225]   [IP Addr=]

Hear Kanto-traut Live


You can hear Kanto-traut for yourself. Class action! Ka-ching!


"Chicago Police Interrogation Tactics Under Fire," Morning Edition, January 8, 2004.
[Date/Time=01-11-2004 - 12:11 PM]    Name:David Raskin draskin@artic.edu, [Msgid=569830]   [IP Addr=]

4th and 26!

I haven't seen a choke like that since the 6th game of the NLCS. Bartman must be a Packers fan...
[Date/Time=01-11-2004 - 9:37 PM]    Name:Gazzoo dirwuf@hotmail.com, [Msgid=569985]   [IP Addr=]

Divine Interception

Pack lost game by not taking field goal on 4th and goal from the 1 in the first half. Should have remembered their Greek tragedies. Hubris was their nemesis. (from the Odyssey). Colts will need to play much better D to get by New England. They won't be able to score on every possession.
[Date/Time=01-11-2004 - 8:08 PM]    Name:RMoss rrmossler@comcast.net, [Msgid=570001]   [IP Addr=]

Cold In New England, Hot At Foxboro

Haven't posted in a long time. But I'm glad to see all the regulars are still up on the board. I've been up in Boston now for 2 years and have adopted the Pats during my stint here (still love the Broncos, always will). With -3degF at Foxboro stadium last night, I was impressed with play of both teams. But the Pats were just resilient. Pats are playing a great consistent game, a strong winning streak, and the Colts have a few bugs going against them next Sunday:

1. Colts have lost 6 straight in Foxboro,
2. Peyton Manning 0 - 4 in Foxboro,
3. Tom Brady 3 - 0 vs. Colts,
4. Home turf for the Pats with 9 - 0 at home

Looking forward to a great game on Sunday screaming at the boob tube.

Just read about Tom Feigenbaum - Please wish him my best. I have some very warm memories at camp with Tom. I'd love to drop him a line. If anyone knows where he can be reached, I'd appreciate an EMail - martin_lynch@maxtor.com.
[Date/Time=01-11-2004 - 11:04 PM]    Name:Martin Lynch [Msgid=570051]   [IP Addr=]

Blind Squirrel doesn't find nut!

Please see my previous post. I guess God was getting a beer when Favre chucked up yet another prayer in overtime. His "team of destiny," who got there by beating crappy teams down the stretch and winning a crappy division lost after all. I actually feel sorry for the rest of the team which played pretty well, except of course for the 4th and 26 debacle. I'm sure all the Colts are calling the Packers and their fans to pick their brains about what it's like to get this far in the playoffs, Marksy! New England will be extremely tough...I'm not real optimistic, but I'm sure as hell not counting us out! I think Carolina will beat Philly.
[Date/Time=01-12-2004 - 4:52 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=570088]   [IP Addr=]

It's Steve Feigenbaum

Hey Martin, it's Steve Feigenbaum, Tom's older brother, who also went to camp. He was there in your camper days, but not your counselor days.
[Date/Time=01-12-2004 - 4:54 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=570090]   [IP Addr=]

A great weekend of football-- almost!

Congrats to the Colts who are proving they belong. Payton's numbers the last 2 weeks are unbelievable. This week should be a huge test where he finally plays against a Super Bowl caliber defense. Welcome to the big games Moss .... next week separates the men from the boys. Yesterday proved that a high percentage of NFL games are decided on 5 or less plays. I have no problem with the calls the Mike Sherman made unlike Mike Martz who totally baffled me. At least the Packers know what free agents to go after and draft -- DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE. I would also look at the Packer Special teams coaches who did not have the best of games yesterday.

Hey Gazzoo -- it's pretty close...the number of coaches that have turned down the Bears Head Coaching Position compare to the number of games they have won in the past 2 seasons. The number is almost the same.

[Date/Time=01-12-2004 - 4:08 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=570225]   [IP Addr=]

For all you doubters...

2003 was the last year the Bears didn't win the Super Bowl.
[Date/Time=01-12-2004 - 2:30 PM]    Name:Jeff Leiken dacoach@beardown.com, [Msgid=570349]   [IP Addr=]

God having a beer?

Probably the most painful loss I've ever experienced as a Packer fan. We threw the game away and many are to blame - Sherman the most. But it certainly was an exciting last half of the season. Here's looking forward to next year . . .

JMoss - good luck to your Colts. Hopefully Manning will string together one more awesome game. The Patriots are a little better than the Chiefs.

RMoss - nice to see another reference to "hubris". I think, however, that Homer's works (Odyssey and Iliad) are usually considered of the "epic" genre while Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides are the more generally representative authors of Greek "tragedy". Moreover, I don't think the Packers thought of themselves as "heroic" in any way (a requirement for the protagonist in tragic drama); rather, they thought of themselves as lucky beyond their reasonable expectations over the last few weeks. They didn't seem cocky to me and did not seem to be looking past the Eagles which might have smacked of hubris. All that matters is who wins (especially twice in one season), but sometimes the better team doesn't win. I still think the Packers are better than the Eagles, but I certainly can't prove it from these results!
[Date/Time=01-12-2004 - 7:43 PM]    Name:seasonticket/shareholder jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=570552]   [IP Addr=]


[Date/Time=01-12-2004 - 8:52 PM]    Name:Pudderonymous [Msgid=570587]   [IP Addr=]

I Stand Corrected

James, thanks for correcting me. I'm just a product of the Hoosier edycation system and don't know no better. I believe, however, that my reference to the Odyssey was correct regardless of how one characterizes the particular genre of literature to which it belongs. Please notice how I didn't end the previous sentence with a preposition despite the inferior status of the higher education institution from which I gradyated. (No dangling preposition on that sentence either)
[Date/Time=01-13-2004 - 3:52 PM]    Name:RMoss rrmossler@comcast.net, [Msgid=571001]   [IP Addr=]



  • FINAL Voting Results Are:

    Yes - 1       No - 0

Who was your favorite--Jill or Jackie Hubris?
--Robin or Linda Bach?
[Date/Time=01-13-2004 - 11:29 PM]    Name:ggorchtrout [Msgid=571085]   [IP Addr=]


This is more confusing than a Florida Ballot...did I just vote for Hubris, Jill, Jackie, Robin, or Linda?
[Date/Time=01-14-2004 - 9:36 AM]    Name:JMoss embensar@comcast.net, [Msgid=571320]   [IP Addr=]

Jill or Jackie Huber

I have to weigh in on this one as you are now discussing my time at Timberlane. Jackie, the older sister, was beautiful. Not just the kind of beauty that exists after 10 weeks at a boys camp either. She was pretty on the first day. Jill was also really pretty and my age. In a close vote, I take Jackie. Linda was also my age and really pretty and down to earth. Robin Bach the younger sister had that same sweetness. A tie here. Does anyone know where Linda or Robin Bach are. Someone told me Robin was in Alaska. BTW, why no poll question of the Herz sisters? Or the Rice girls that used to come visit the Hikens and torment the boys much like Paris Hilton did to the fine young men of Altus, Arkansas. Finally, I must ask again, does anyone know what ever happened to Mark Abrahams from New York. He was my CIT and JC for years. Congrats to the Colts. Lee
[Date/Time=01-14-2004 - 11:41 AM]    Name:Lee Glicksman tryingnottogetsunburnedintucson.com, [Msgid=571383]   [IP Addr=]


The only one I remember was Jackie Huber, and the Rice girls...twins were they not?....oooh la la!
[Date/Time=01-14-2004 - 1:52 PM]    Name:JMoss embensar@comcast.net, [Msgid=571448]   [IP Addr=]

More babes

The younger Herz sister- DEBBIE in a landslide over the older sister PAULA -- who if I remember correctly failed to shave her armpits for a summer. Though brunette -- Debie seemed to have alot of "blonde" in her.
[Date/Time=01-15-2004 - 12:39 PM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=571514]   [IP Addr=]


"but the older was Paula -- who if I remember correctly failed to shave her armpits for a summer."

[Date/Time=01-14-2004 - 7:10 PM]    Name:pudderonymous [Msgid=571659]   [IP Addr=]


Pud...nice to see you chiming in...once football season is over I say it's open season on Pud! JK!...as my daughter would say
[Date/Time=01-14-2004 - 7:33 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=571665]   [IP Addr=]


Too busy watching Kitty Carlisle...and designing for the sexes...Is it still football season? Good defense will always stop good offense and vice versa. Party on boys!
[Date/Time=01-17-2004 - 11:34 AM]    Name:P'troffsky nanpeter@comcast.net, [Msgid=572972]   [IP Addr=]

No Excuses

The better team one...Peyton obviously got rattled, but I was proud that they didn't quit. Thought they got some tough breaks on their last drive, but the bottom line is they got outplayed. The defense needs to be upgraded some more, obviously!
[Date/Time=01-18-2004 - 7:37 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=573808]   [IP Addr=]

The better team one...


  • FINAL Voting Results Are:

    Yes - 2       No - 0

[Date/Time=01-18-2004 - 11:21 PM]    Name:Pudoose [Msgid=573942]   [IP Addr=]

Now that the Colts and Packers are gone...

I now officially declare open season on Pud...
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 12:25 AM]    Name:Gazzoo dirwuf@comcast.net, [Msgid=573957]   [IP Addr=]

One last shot

I guess the smack talk is coming to an end. Before the Pud derby begins I just wanted to point out that once again the men from Michigan (Law and Brady) shot down the Prince from Tennessee, just like Woodson did for the Heisman. It's amazing that Manning still cries over that one. He just doesn't seem to ever be able to get over the hump (Heisman, CO-MVP, playoff failures). He must have picked up some pretty bad karma somewhere.
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 8:44 AM]    Name:Red gschatten@comcast.net, [Msgid=574041]   [IP Addr=]

Black Monday for Indy

Where is Rick with his Monday morning Peyton QB rating now?

I can just picture the Mossler brothers watching the game in some dark basement with empty chip bags, bottles and tissue all over the floor. Look around on the dark panel walls and see that old Jim Mora autograph photo from fan appreciation day in 1994 and the 1979 and 1984 IU Team Basketball posters on the walls. On the staircase down, there are some old riflery targets and other camp achievement certificates signed by H.

Now that's Indy living.

[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 11:13 AM]    Name:Matt Healy [Msgid=574081]   [IP Addr=]


"Manning still cries over that one. He just doesn't seem to ever be able to get over the hump. He must have picked up some pretty bad karma somewhere"

[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 9:44 AM]    Name:Pud [Msgid=574082]   [IP Addr=]

Always Next Year...

Sorry Moss --- the Colts looked like a Pud Heller led Pow Wow team yesterday... totally unorganized and outplayed. Who ever wrote the above post and signed Matt Healy, I laughed for 10 minutes. The riflery thing is absolutely classic. I would write more but it's more enjoyable to make fun of Moss when he's in a better mood.
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 9:51 AM]    Name:marksy [Msgid=574102]   [IP Addr=]


The a.k.a. Stever Bratter notation popped up and went away from the Healy post. If it is you Steve, you should show yourself. BTW, the ip address in that post is the same as the one from the schmegma@swimraft posts.
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 11:38 AM]    Name:Red gschatten@comcast.net, [Msgid=574185]   [IP Addr=]



Very Clever and Youíre right. Itís not Steve Bratter (a ninja would never be caught) or Healy.

I never knew you had computer aptitude. I thought Plotkin and Goldstein were the computer experts.

I'm back from vacation to give Moss (Jeff) a hard time.

[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 2:22 PM]    Name:Matt Healy [Msgid=574282]   [IP Addr=]

Healy Post

Great game on Sunday. Basically a defensive game on both sides. I thought it basically ended in the 1st quarter when the Pats got their 1st interception in the end zone. Manning just got stunned. I agree with Moss on building up the Colts defense. If they do, they'll be back and in a much better position. Plus Manning got some big game experience which will pay off next time around.

Been catching up on all the posts. I loved the Matt Healy one but agree with Red that it's not Matt. Looked up the IP - most likely the mystery "Matt" is from the northeast U.S. or Calif. with an outside chance of Chicago.
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 3:05 PM]    Name:Martin Lynch [Msgid=574301]   [IP Addr=]

January 19th viewing note & message for

First of all, JP just called me from the front of the audience line at Letterman and wanted to remind everyone to tune in tonight as he and Billie should be sitting in the first row...

Secondly, to, please note that ALL FUTURE POSTS OF YOURS WILL BE DELETED UNLESS YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF. Sorry to do this, but you've played your hand long enough.

[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 3:40 PM]    Name:Gazzoo dirwuf@comcast.net, [Msgid=574309]   [IP Addr=]

show and tell

Nothing better than reading the board listening to deadshow.com: the memories stream in from two directions; the yin and yang (that's for Red) of camp.
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 3:49 PM]    Name:David Raskin draskin@artic.edu, [Msgid=574315]   [IP Addr=]

Hey Now

I never thought that giving Mossler a hard time would cause as much controversy as the Jeff Bird vs. Carrie Calliendo (Spelling?) Grudge Night Boxing Match at the rec building.

Mossler already guessed who I was. It didnít take a secret computer search.

If you get a chance, please read my post earlier this month titled ìBy the Way.î

Hey Martin, do you remember the year that I was a camper in your cabin? I can still hear you and Tom Callahan playing guitar in our cabinÖwhat a memory and what a fanatasic summer that was.

Gazzoo, I'll send you my vitals for the Timberbase. Your stern warning about future posting reminded me when Callahan used to yell at us on Cruiser Day to sit down in the back of that little yellow bus on our way to Crystal Lake.

Greetings to All.

Adam Zimmerman

[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 6:59 PM]    Name:Adam Zimmerman (aka Schegma) azimmerman@appraizal.com, [Msgid=574336]   [IP Addr=]




3 4.349 ms gigabitethernet5-0.lsanca1-cr3.bbnplanet.net [AS1/AS3356] GTE Internetworking / Level 3 Communications North America
4 9.195 ms p6-0.lsanca1-cr6.bbnplanet.net [AS1/AS3356] GTE Internetworking / Level 3 Communications North America
5 9.916 ms p6-0.lsanca2-br1.bbnplanet.net [AS1/AS3356] GTE Internetworking / Level 3 Communications North America
6 7.346 ms unknown.Level3.net (Fake rDNS) [AS3356] Level 3 Communications North America
7 64.547 ms so-2-2-0.bbr2.CHICAGO1.Level3.net [AS3356] Level 3 Communications North America
8 65.181 ms so-5-0.ipcolo2.CHICAGO1.Level3.net [AS1/AS3356] GTE Internetworking / Level 3 Communications North America
9 64.829 ms unknown.Level3.net (Fake rDNS) [AS3356] Level 3 Communications North America
10 *
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 5:36 PM]    Name:Pud [Msgid=574387]   [IP Addr=]


I hearby relinquish all rights to poke fun at anyone's grammar! I wish I could say the pun was intentional, but it was either a Freudian slip, senility, or my grief was such that I just fu**ed up! Zimmerman, nice to see you "out"...I knew it had to be you. The gloves are off baby...let us know who your team is so we can give you your proper crap...you're playin' in the big leagues now junior!
[Date/Time=01-19-2004 - 9:02 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=574467]   [IP Addr=]


Zimm! Nice to see you on the board; you know I'm in the market for, well, you know. I took pictures of you and Kanto as the Blues Brothers during U.N. Day to his wedding. There was Zimm, driving a Pudmobile but blinded by a banner across the windshield scattering campers across the athletic field.
[Date/Time=01-20-2004 - 3:18 PM]    Name:David Raskin draskin@artic.edu, [Msgid=574832]   [IP Addr=]



Thanks for the warm welcome.

All I can remember about that Pow Wow Day was that Hís heart rate and Timberlaneís liability insurance rate went up instantly.

Give Kanto my best and destroy those photos in case I run for public office someday. As for the fuzzbuster industry, I hope the statute of limitations has run out on those juvenile indiscretions (I hope I don't need Kanto to represent me).


[Date/Time=01-21-2004 - 4:01 PM]    Name:Adam Zimmerman (aka Schegma) azimmerman@appraizal.com, [Msgid=575622]   [IP Addr=]

1 -2 -3.......

The following is from http://cgee.hamline.edu/rivers/Resources/Voices/raft3.htm:

Fifteen boys therefore 7 teams of buddies and one left over. If there ever was an odd amount of items such as food candy or pop we played a game we called "Horsengoggle." Any boy who wanted in on the goodie would stand in a circle with the others and one boy would count to three. On the count of three each boy would hold up 1 - 5 fingers. The fingers were totaled up and the horsengogglee if you will , would count from one to the number of fingers ,starting on his right ,the person that he ended up with received the item . As there was no way to cheat in this "game" it was the fairest system we had and there was never any argument over who won.

[Date/Time=01-22-2004 - 12:49 AM]    Name:Boca Bosco YaHeyDer@aol.com, [Msgid=575912]   [IP Addr=]


Happy IBD everyone...the 4 at the end is a nice touch!...hope someone out there celebrated appropriately early this am!
[Date/Time=01-23-2004 - 6:36 AM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=576694]   [IP Addr=]

Thanks for the memory

Bosco -

Wow! I hadn't thought about horsengoggle for decades. It's amazing how the small linkages to our past keep popping up in other places. I wouldn't be surprised to see billboards on the side of the road for Tastee-Freeze!

[Date/Time=01-26-2004 - 7:09 PM]    Name:it'smaltarinotime jhiken@insightbb.com, [Msgid=578709]   [IP Addr=]

Another Flashback (Kybo Paper, Oooey gooey goo)

From: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/b-p/hygiene.htm

..."what is a KYBO?" Well, it is the name used in Scouting for an outhouse or just a hole in the ground. The word stands for "Keep Your Bowels Open".
[Date/Time=01-26-2004 - 10:43 PM]    Name:Boca Bosco YaHeyDer@aol.com, [Msgid=578845]   [IP Addr=]

ZIMM and "The Pud"

I too remember it all too well... Somewhere there is video footage of the driving antics of Zimm sticking his head out the driver's side window to see where he was going with that banner stuck to the front windshield...

Speaking of adolescent antics, I was once a customer of the radar detector set-up shoppe of Northbrook. That "escort" helped me speed along a lot of miles on the poon tang road of life...

good to hear from you Adam!
[Date/Time=01-27-2004 - 10:51 PM]    Name:Jeff Leiken JLeiken@MentorCounselor.com, [Msgid=579552]   [IP Addr=]

Gorchoff's Greatest Lines

On the line with computer tech support the other day trying to figure out what the hell they were talking about... I was reminded of something Gorchoff once said to Bryant Esch and me (I?) during Porter Camp in 1985...

"Jeff and Bryant, I want you to go to the set-up and collect set-ups and set up a set-up for tonight's... set-up."

It was a hell of a camp fire that night.

[Date/Time=01-27-2004 - 10:58 PM]    Name:Jeff Leiken set-up@set-up.setup, [Msgid=579559]   [IP Addr=]

Crime and Punishment


That reminded me of my Gorchoff Set-Up Story.

In an earlier post, I mentioned I might sue Mossler for post-traumatic stress disorder from those Frank Zappa albums playing loudly from the counselor room. I may now amend my law-suit to include Gary who caught me goofing off and making crazy sounds and false announcements with the P.A. system in the office.

After he removed me from the office by force, (i.e. hands around my neck) my punishment was to cut 100+ marsh-mellow stick set-ups for the camp fire from live trees with a very dull butter knife.

Although I truly enjoyed smelling those ditto machine fumes that were always present in the office, I never went near the P.A. set-up again.

[Date/Time=01-28-2004 - 8:45 AM]    Name:Adam "set-up" Zimmerman azimmerman@appraizal.com, [Msgid=579701]   [IP Addr=]

Porter girls camp

Ah yes, Porter's girls camp. It was 1975. I'd been at camp since the week before pre-camp. I was the SC of the PA cabin with Pud, Mossler, Gazzoo, Marks, Echt and others. Great year. On the last night of girls' gymnastics camp, the remaining staff had a keg in our cabin. Dozens of petite, taut, finely tuned 15 year-old gymnasts throwing up so much it looked like a Karen Carpenter wannabe competition. We all got fine 25 dollars each. (I didn't much care as I think I was in the hole for the summer anyway.) Mr Bradley was furious, Harold feigned anger but used it as a story for years to come, and the girls...well some of them became women that night.
[Date/Time=01-28-2004 - 12:27 PM]    Name:Lee benzachg@opus1.com, [Msgid=579728]   [IP Addr=]




Was watching IU vs. Purdue on ESPN last night and there was a commercial about the Watersmeet Nimrods...that's right the Nimrods!...They were clearly from a cold climate...I think from the UP near the Porkies...the phone rang right after the commercial, and I told my kids I knew it was Rick...we got a nice chuckle out of it. I wonder what Bruce Crossing's nickname is? http://www.watersmeet.k12.mi.us/nimrod.html

[Date/Time=01-28-2004 - 1:08 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=579818]   [IP Addr=]

Porter Camp

Lee, I feel I must chime in on the Porter issue for 2 reasons. First and foremost, I met my wife at Porter Camp. Second, we were busted after a party on the Point...empty bottles found, the evidence was only circumstantial, but the girls confessed to everything but the Manson Murders! We were chastised severely, but the worst part is the girl I was trying to hit on got sent home and could never come back! Must have been an omen, I met my wife the next year!

[Date/Time=01-28-2004 - 1:10 PM]    Name:JMoss [Msgid=579864]   [IP Addr=]